Chat application thoughts?
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Mattermost kinda sucked because the community ("Team") version had no system default permission policy and even if configured through config files, permissions were not applied. This means that everyone was able to, lets say...do things that you would not expect at all. See https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/14104 for example. I think they fixed some issues around that, but it tarnishes the shine of what could actually be a good open source project.
rocket.chat was the best alternative but even if the mobile client got better, the product got worse over time. Lately they kinda forced you into using their cloud service in order to have (limited) push notifications working in the future. Federation is still in beta and not ready for production. After using it for the last 1 1/2 years, I have mixed feelings.
Synapse (Matrix) + Element has clearly proven to be the best solution. I saw a lot of big players move away from Slack and HipChat towards Matrix. Element is pretty good (at least at Desktop) and there are a lot of other mobile clients too. Usability and security is top-notch and except that it is a bit difficult to set up (unless you use cloudron), I saw no real downsides.
I would be very happy to replace Telegram and rocket.chat with Matrix but people are known to be sluggish.
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Mattermost kinda sucked because the community ("Team") version had no system default permission policy and even if configured through config files, permissions were not applied. This means that everyone was able to, lets say...do things that you would not expect at all. See https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/14104 for example. I think they fixed some issues around that, but it tarnishes the shine of what could actually be a good open source project.
rocket.chat was the best alternative but even if the mobile client got better, the product got worse over time. Lately they kinda forced you into using their cloud service in order to have (limited) push notifications working in the future. Federation is still in beta and not ready for production. After using it for the last 1 1/2 years, I have mixed feelings.
Synapse (Matrix) + Element has clearly proven to be the best solution. I saw a lot of big players move away from Slack and HipChat towards Matrix. Element is pretty good (at least at Desktop) and there are a lot of other mobile clients too. Usability and security is top-notch and except that it is a bit difficult to set up (unless you use cloudron), I saw no real downsides.
I would be very happy to replace Telegram and rocket.chat with Matrix but people are known to be sluggish.
@subven said in Chat application thoughts?:
Usability and security is top-notch
Lots of people find the usability of Martix an issue. It's often not at all obvious how to find/ join rooms.
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Mattermost - does not have LDAP. It also has no access control as such, it works best if you know everyone who you invite and they can be expected to follow "rules" (for example, I think in mm anyone can archive a channel)
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Rocket.Chat - has LDAP. Also has live chat which you can embed on your site. This is what we use and it's acceptable. Mobile app breaks now and then
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Matrix - Has e2e encryption, open standard. If you prefer open standard over maturity, you should choose this over rocket.chat.
While both Rocket.Chat and Matrix support federation, I have only tested it with Matrix and it works well there.
@girish said in Chat application thoughts?:
If you prefer open standard over maturity
Common misconception that open source / open standard does not equal maturity. OpenSSL is open standard on 90% of webservers in the world, and it's very secure and mature.
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https://urgero.org
~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~ -
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@girish said in Chat application thoughts?:
If you prefer open standard over maturity
Common misconception that open source / open standard does not equal maturity. OpenSSL is open standard on 90% of webservers in the world, and it's very secure and mature.
@murgero nobody said these 2 qualities were incompatible. I think nobody here holds this position ^^
The point here was that Matrix was more open but less mature.
Not at all that it's impossible to be both open and mature, just that it wasn't the case in this specific instance. -
@murgero nobody said these 2 qualities were incompatible. I think nobody here holds this position ^^
The point here was that Matrix was more open but less mature.
Not at all that it's impossible to be both open and mature, just that it wasn't the case in this specific instance. -
I've just been taking another look at Nextcloud Talk, and I have to say that both the web application and the mobile app are excellent.
Unlike Element and Mattermost, Talk has the ability to add multiple servers, which is essential for me in managing multiple companies and clients. Plus, it is already using the Nextcloud LDAP integration for Cloudron user management.
I haven't tried the Matterbridge yet but the concept does look very good and might tick all your boxes for ease of onboarding and security:
- https://nextcloud.com/de/blog/bridging-chat-services-in-talk/
- https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/talk_matterbridge
Highly recommend revisiting and including this in your consideration.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
I've just been taking another look at Nextcloud Talk, and I have to say that both the web application and the mobile app are excellent.
Unlike Element and Mattermost, Talk has the ability to add multiple servers, which is essential for me in managing multiple companies and clients. Plus, it is already using the Nextcloud LDAP integration for Cloudron user management.
I haven't tried the Matterbridge yet but the concept does look very good and might tick all your boxes for ease of onboarding and security:
- https://nextcloud.com/de/blog/bridging-chat-services-in-talk/
- https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/talk_matterbridge
Highly recommend revisiting and including this in your consideration.
@marcusquinn on the Talk front, we're packaging Nextcloud Talk High Performance Backend, so you should be able to scale up nicely soon(ish)
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@marcusquinn on the Talk front, we're packaging Nextcloud Talk High Performance Backend, so you should be able to scale up nicely soon(ish)
@doodlemania2 Ooooooo - that is nice! Owe you many
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@marcusquinn on the Talk front, we're packaging Nextcloud Talk High Performance Backend, so you should be able to scale up nicely soon(ish)
@doodlemania2 said in Chat application thoughts?:
@marcusquinn on the Talk front, we're packaging Nextcloud Talk High Performance Backend, so you should be able to scale up nicely soon(ish)
I'm really looking forward to that!
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I've just been taking another look at Nextcloud Talk, and I have to say that both the web application and the mobile app are excellent.
Unlike Element and Mattermost, Talk has the ability to add multiple servers, which is essential for me in managing multiple companies and clients. Plus, it is already using the Nextcloud LDAP integration for Cloudron user management.
I haven't tried the Matterbridge yet but the concept does look very good and might tick all your boxes for ease of onboarding and security:
- https://nextcloud.com/de/blog/bridging-chat-services-in-talk/
- https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/talk_matterbridge
Highly recommend revisiting and including this in your consideration.
@marcusquinn said in Chat application thoughts?:
Unlike Element and Mattermost, Talk has the ability to add multiple servers, which is essential for me in managing multiple companies and clients. Plus, it is already using the Nextcloud LDAP integration for Cloudron user management.
I assume you mean the ability to login to multiple servers given the context? I believe element supports this. Mattermost does not sadly.
--
https://urgero.org
~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~ -
@marcusquinn said in Chat application thoughts?:
Unlike Element and Mattermost, Talk has the ability to add multiple servers, which is essential for me in managing multiple companies and clients. Plus, it is already using the Nextcloud LDAP integration for Cloudron user management.
I assume you mean the ability to login to multiple servers given the context? I believe element supports this. Mattermost does not sadly.
@murgero said in Chat application thoughts?:
I assume you mean the ability to login to multiple servers given the context? I believe element supports this. Mattermost does not sadly.
Yup, and stay logged in to get notifications from all servers and easily switch between the two.
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@doodlemania2 said in Chat application thoughts?:
@marcusquinn on the Talk front, we're packaging Nextcloud Talk High Performance Backend, so you should be able to scale up nicely soon(ish)
I'm really looking forward to that!
@jdaviescoates It's up next as soon as I finish cleaning paperlessng and submitting (today hopefully). You can follow along on my https://git.cloudron.io/doodlemania2/nthpbe
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Mattermost kinda sucked because the community ("Team") version had no system default permission policy and even if configured through config files, permissions were not applied. This means that everyone was able to, lets say...do things that you would not expect at all. See https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/14104 for example. I think they fixed some issues around that, but it tarnishes the shine of what could actually be a good open source project.
rocket.chat was the best alternative but even if the mobile client got better, the product got worse over time. Lately they kinda forced you into using their cloud service in order to have (limited) push notifications working in the future. Federation is still in beta and not ready for production. After using it for the last 1 1/2 years, I have mixed feelings.
Synapse (Matrix) + Element has clearly proven to be the best solution. I saw a lot of big players move away from Slack and HipChat towards Matrix. Element is pretty good (at least at Desktop) and there are a lot of other mobile clients too. Usability and security is top-notch and except that it is a bit difficult to set up (unless you use cloudron), I saw no real downsides.
I would be very happy to replace Telegram and rocket.chat with Matrix but people are known to be sluggish.
@subven You can sponser them on github for like 5-10 bucks a month for more push notifications (which still work without paying, but with a cap) much cheaper than the cloud option, especially if you only need the push notifications
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I've tried element/matrix and now rocket.chat. I find rocket.chat to be lightyears easier on administration/moderation then matrix. Admin rocket.chat is borderline enjoyable. Admin matrix was not. Additionally, the users i've talked to about ease of use (caveat only about 10) all preferred rocket hands down to element. Lastly, Rocket has the dankest GIFS.
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I've tried element/matrix and now rocket.chat. I find rocket.chat to be lightyears easier on administration/moderation then matrix. Admin rocket.chat is borderline enjoyable. Admin matrix was not. Additionally, the users i've talked to about ease of use (caveat only about 10) all preferred rocket hands down to element. Lastly, Rocket has the dankest GIFS.
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@mastadamus but no dark mode ;-/
@robi everything has dark-mode if you use darkreader.org or webcatalog.app. I've not found an app yet it doesn't work as well or better than an apps own dark styling.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
@robi everything has dark-mode if you use darkreader.org or webcatalog.app. I've not found an app yet it doesn't work as well or better than an apps own dark styling.
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@marcusquinn rocket chat, desktop app.
@robi Didn't know there was one. I'm guessing it's an Electron wrapper like almost every other "app" nowadays? In which case, I already roll my own with WebCatalog for the extra features.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
@robi Didn't know there was one. I'm guessing it's an Electron wrapper like almost every other "app" nowadays? In which case, I already roll my own with WebCatalog for the extra features.
oh yeah that makes sense >.<
