Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!
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That's great to know. I'm using DigitalOcean at the mo, which I love so far, but it looks a little on the expensive side in comparison to NetCup for instance.
@christiaan Yeah, nothing wrong with DO - but they do seem part of the big-5 club that all have suspiciously identical pricing and mostly similar features.
More than happy with Hetzner though - it was the network level DDoS by default that swung it for me - although a network level WAF would be nice for Cloud VMs.
Netcup looks feature comparable but I guess I just got support nerves in the end and opted to pay a little more. Still less than DO though and will be migrating a lot away from Azure & Vultr as I get through the Cloudron + Hetzner setups for ~50 users.
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@scooke 2 of my 3 Cloudron Pros are on NetCup (1 still on DO):
Cloudron 1 (lots of traffic/usage):
RS 8000 G9
AMD EPYC
7702
64 GB DDR4 RAM (ECC)
10 dedizierte Kerne
2 TB SSDCloudron 2 (less traffic/playground):
VPS 2000 G9
4 vCore
16 GB RAM
320 GB SSD (RAID10)
80 TB Traffic -
@imc67 Awesome, definitely interested to follow your experience with Netcup.
I got to the end of their checkout and just hesitated from searching around on their support and changed direction to Hetzner last minute and very happy with that.
Netcup certainly is the highest specs and features for bucks I could see but I just have so many users I fell for the bigger name of Hetzner and really need a decent Teams/Members setup to have various Sys Admins per VM.
Keeping an open mind though so do update as you go.
Agreed - Cloudron is a revelation - the dedication and community makes all the difference when you find system designers that just get it and focus on the sum of a thousand user needs details.
Great story!
@marcusquinn I was "afraid" too of NetCup being so cheap and with such high specs. That's why I first moved 1 cloudron to experience their product and services.
The products are simply good, you get what they say in specs. Server Control Panel looks a bit 2010 but it simply works and smart!
Service: my experience with their email response times: average of 15 minutes! Not always the right answer (for me) in the first reply but always got an answer anyway.
The only really downside: their IP reputation is really bad. With DO I never experienced my IP was listed/blocked for email somewhere. My 2 cloudrons on NetCup both had issues with specifically Microsoft (outlook, live, hotmail). But support solved that by contacting MS.
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@christiaan Yeah, nothing wrong with DO - but they do seem part of the big-5 club that all have suspiciously identical pricing and mostly similar features.
More than happy with Hetzner though - it was the network level DDoS by default that swung it for me - although a network level WAF would be nice for Cloud VMs.
Netcup looks feature comparable but I guess I just got support nerves in the end and opted to pay a little more. Still less than DO though and will be migrating a lot away from Azure & Vultr as I get through the Cloudron + Hetzner setups for ~50 users.
@marcusquinn said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
but they do seem part of the big-5 club that all have suspiciously identical pricing and mostly similar features
Exactly!!!
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@marcusquinn I was "afraid" too of NetCup being so cheap and with such high specs. That's why I first moved 1 cloudron to experience their product and services.
The products are simply good, you get what they say in specs. Server Control Panel looks a bit 2010 but it simply works and smart!
Service: my experience with their email response times: average of 15 minutes! Not always the right answer (for me) in the first reply but always got an answer anyway.
The only really downside: their IP reputation is really bad. With DO I never experienced my IP was listed/blocked for email somewhere. My 2 cloudrons on NetCup both had issues with specifically Microsoft (outlook, live, hotmail). But support solved that by contacting MS.
@imc67 could you pls elaborate on this? I’ve experienced a similar issue.
My 2 cloudrons on NetCup both had issues with specifically Microsoft (outlook, live, hotmail). But support solved that by contacting MS.
What are the steps you take to resolve this?
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@imc67 could you pls elaborate on this? I’ve experienced a similar issue.
My 2 cloudrons on NetCup both had issues with specifically Microsoft (outlook, live, hotmail). But support solved that by contacting MS.
What are the steps you take to resolve this?
@vjvanjungg I sent an email with the email headers of the bounced emails and requested if they could contact MS to delist.
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@marcusquinn I was "afraid" too of NetCup being so cheap and with such high specs. That's why I first moved 1 cloudron to experience their product and services.
The products are simply good, you get what they say in specs. Server Control Panel looks a bit 2010 but it simply works and smart!
Service: my experience with their email response times: average of 15 minutes! Not always the right answer (for me) in the first reply but always got an answer anyway.
The only really downside: their IP reputation is really bad. With DO I never experienced my IP was listed/blocked for email somewhere. My 2 cloudrons on NetCup both had issues with specifically Microsoft (outlook, live, hotmail). But support solved that by contacting MS.
@imc67 Doing a bunch of sendmail service testing at the mo so will post more reviews in this feedback as I go to share the wealth and all that: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/2851/seeking-recommendations-based-on-experience-for-sendmail-relays
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Just wanted to add to this thread too. I've moved servers about 5 times now. It happens so quickly and smoothly that I get to the end of the process and wonder if I'm really finished. So well done!
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@imc67 Awesome, definitely interested to follow your experience with Netcup.
I got to the end of their checkout and just hesitated from searching around on their support and changed direction to Hetzner last minute and very happy with that.
Netcup certainly is the highest specs and features for bucks I could see but I just have so many users I fell for the bigger name of Hetzner and really need a decent Teams/Members setup to have various Sys Admins per VM.
Keeping an open mind though so do update as you go.
Agreed - Cloudron is a revelation - the dedication and community makes all the difference when you find system designers that just get it and focus on the sum of a thousand user needs details.
Great story!
@marcusquinn I'm using Netcup
And did a very easy migrate from Linode to Netcup as @imc67 reports.I'm fine with NetCup. Only comments I would make is :
- their deployment on order is not instantaneous : they do a check for new customers and even after, it can take a little while. Quick enough, but not 100% automated. So don't order a server at 3am and expect it to be live at 3:15am.
- not immediately clear from site/emails, but their deployed servers are all debian. No choice on signup. BUT you can use console to wipe it with another OS of your choice.
- they're German and the forum is mostly German, minimal English content, although if you post a question, some kind soul will usually reply in English. Just not mainstream content. I use a translation utility )already) so I highlight and get translations, but. bit long-winded
Generally I'm happy to recommend Netcup
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@marcusquinn I'm using Netcup
And did a very easy migrate from Linode to Netcup as @imc67 reports.I'm fine with NetCup. Only comments I would make is :
- their deployment on order is not instantaneous : they do a check for new customers and even after, it can take a little while. Quick enough, but not 100% automated. So don't order a server at 3am and expect it to be live at 3:15am.
- not immediately clear from site/emails, but their deployed servers are all debian. No choice on signup. BUT you can use console to wipe it with another OS of your choice.
- they're German and the forum is mostly German, minimal English content, although if you post a question, some kind soul will usually reply in English. Just not mainstream content. I use a translation utility )already) so I highlight and get translations, but. bit long-winded
Generally I'm happy to recommend Netcup
@timconsidine said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
Generally I'm happy to recommend Netcup
I've got a little test server with them too, just to try them out, but I won't be using them again. The Hetzner experience is orders of magnitude better for hardly any more money. The thing I most disliked about Netcup is that they advertise hourly pricing but then you have to pay 6 months upfront. The whole thing is a bit clunky compared to the great UX on Hetzner.
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@timconsidine said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
Generally I'm happy to recommend Netcup
I've got a little test server with them too, just to try them out, but I won't be using them again. The Hetzner experience is orders of magnitude better for hardly any more money. The thing I most disliked about Netcup is that they advertise hourly pricing but then you have to pay 6 months upfront. The whole thing is a bit clunky compared to the great UX on Hetzner.
@jdaviescoates I have one small Hetzner instance, but I doubt use it much, so not familiar.
Initially I didn't like the 6 months billing on small servers (nb only on small ones), but then I realised it saved me a lot of bank reconciliation work and invoice tracking. So now I am ok with it.
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I'm preparing for the move. Cloudron version has to be the same as mentioned in the guide.
What about the Ubuntu?
Currently, I'm on 18.04. Can I move directly to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? -
@asnd said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
Currently, I'm on 18.04. Can I move directly to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS?
yes, or even directly to 22.04.
@fbartels installing Cloudron on a clean 22.04 failed for me today. Setup script crashed because of unbound unable to start. Image is from Contabo. I switched to 20.04 because I do not see the benefit of using 22.04 before it is tested and officially supported.
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@fbartels installing Cloudron on a clean 22.04 failed for me today. Setup script crashed because of unbound unable to start. Image is from Contabo. I switched to 20.04 because I do not see the benefit of using 22.04 before it is tested and officially supported.
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You migrated without downtime! You mean there was no need to change server IPs until the migration was complete?
I'm stacking here
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You migrated without downtime! You mean there was no need to change server IPs until the migration was complete?
I'm stacking here
To add a new message to a long-dormant conversation.
Synonym: necropost@RedzzDragon yes you can do that. BUT! Big
ing but, this only works flawlessly when your migration does not require data synchronization.Data . . . What? Can you explain please?
When the
Old-Server Ahas DNS records and is serving a Webpage,New Server Bstarts, changes DNS records.
Then, what can happen?
DNS Cache and DNS delegation timing issue.
People may get theOld Server Aserved because the DNS cache still has the old IP.
This way you may end up with lost data. And when you then think, oh I can just migrate the old server AGAIN to the new one.
Welllll others users did new inputs on the new server? So what now?If you only serve static content which is managed by you alone, easy-peasy.
Dynamic content with user input. eehhhhh
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To add a new message to a long-dormant conversation.
Synonym: necropost@RedzzDragon yes you can do that. BUT! Big
ing but, this only works flawlessly when your migration does not require data synchronization.Data . . . What? Can you explain please?
When the
Old-Server Ahas DNS records and is serving a Webpage,New Server Bstarts, changes DNS records.
Then, what can happen?
DNS Cache and DNS delegation timing issue.
People may get theOld Server Aserved because the DNS cache still has the old IP.
This way you may end up with lost data. And when you then think, oh I can just migrate the old server AGAIN to the new one.
Welllll others users did new inputs on the new server? So what now?If you only serve static content which is managed by you alone, easy-peasy.
Dynamic content with user input. eehhhhh@BrutalBirdie what I've done in the past is this:
- take full back-up of
Old-Server A - dry-run import into
New Server B - Edit my
/etc/hostsfile so that even though I've not updated DNS yet my laptop thinks everything is atNew Server Band test if everything is working. - Presuming everything is working (and so far, it always have been as best as I could notice), update/ sync the DNS to
New Server Band - Power down
Old-Server A
I guess some people might be directed to
Old-Server Awhile DNS changes propagate - but they wont be able to actually do anything/ enter any data as that server isn't running.So kinda sorta no downtime plus no worries about data synchronization
The reality is that in my particular instance I don't have many users so it's the data issue and the possibility some people won't be able to do anything until their DNS updates isn't a huge deal
- take full back-up of
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I haven't done this, so bear with me. What if we had nginx redirect traffic on
Old-Server Aafter confirmingNew Server Bis set up properly via the dry run method?In addition, we can lower the TTL days before the migration for the old server too so that when we update the DNS, it'll propagate faster.
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I haven't done this, so bear with me. What if we had nginx redirect traffic on
Old-Server Aafter confirmingNew Server Bis set up properly via the dry run method?In addition, we can lower the TTL days before the migration for the old server too so that when we update the DNS, it'll propagate faster.
@humptydumpty said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
I haven't done this, so bear with me. What if we had nginx redirect traffic on Old-Server A after confirming New Server B is set up properly via the dry run method?
That sounds like a good idea to me, but I wouldn't know how to do it. Guess I could search and get guidance from AI though
@humptydumpty said in Cloudron migration to new server: amazing!!!:
In addition, we can lower the TTL days before the migration for the old server too so that when we update the DNS, it'll propagate faster.
Yeah, whenever manually adding DNS stuff I always try to remember to have TTL as low as possible. I've never really understood why anyone would ever want high TTL (and now I'm wondering what Cloudron sets it as by default when setting up DNS records?)
