loomio - helps groups make better decisions together

nebulon

https://www.loomio.org

The people behind it:

Loomio - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loomio

Open Source Self-Hosted Loomio Alternatives
https://alternativeto.net/software/loomio/?license=opensource&platform=self-hosted

jdaviescoates

I'd really love Loomio to be included! Might even tip the balance and make me subscribe!

jdaviescoates

@jdaviescoates said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

I'd really love Loomio to be included! Might even tip the balance and make me subscribe!

HAPPY2020 and the total awesomeness of the service made me subscribe anyway!

jdaviescoates

I contacted Loomio about this and one of their lead developers responded saying:

Hi Josepf,

Cloudron looks like a great system. It should be possible to modify Loomios Dockerfile to support it.

If you know anyone with the inclination I'm happy to support them with that. Otherwise I may get around to it in the next couple of months - I think we could do with a Cloudron host for Loomio stuff.

Kind regards,
Robert

I'll point Robert to this thread and hopefully someone will pick it up!

nebulon

That would be great, we are happy to help packaging.

jdaviescoates

@nebulon I prompted Robert to check out this thread and pointed out Loomio is currently the 5th most wanted app. He said:

Thanks for this Josef, very exciting.

I'm just totally, and completely full and can't see myself doing work on this in the near term. We're going to need to recruit someone else to help to get this done.

yusf

@nebulon said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

The people behind it:
http://enspiral.com/

Loomio (the software) is developed and run by Loomio (the coop) as far as I can tell. In-depth interview.

I’m quite interested in getting this software packaged. I could of course use the hosted version but then I can’t automatically bring my userbase with me.

jdaviescoates

@yusf said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

Loomio (the software) is developed and run by Loomio (the coop) as far as I can tell.

It is, and Loomio is one of the Enspiral ventures, so everyone is correct

https://enspiral.com/pages/ventures

jimcavoli

Bit of the way through packaging, running up against a permission failure with PostgreSQL:

PG::InsufficientPrivilege: ERROR:  permission denied to create extension "citext"
HINT:  Must be superuser to create this extension.

Not the first time I've hit a hard stop due to the PG extensions missing - wonder if there's a more systematic way to solve for PG extensions going forward?

jdaviescoates

@jimcavoli said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

Bit of the way through packaging,

Great to hear, thanks @jimcavoli !

girish

@jimcavoli postgresql has this plugin whitelist, so we have to add citext to it. It's easy to do.

girish

@jimcavoli If you update the /home/yellowtent/box/src/infra_version.js to have the latest postgresql container (the hash is in https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/box/-/commit/23c455043033b4c4a5e7739a1748a2a38c6a9457), then citext should be part of it.

jimcavoli

@girish Thanks! trying to figure out where to submit changes for additional extensions - unclear on that from what you've linked, but bumping the infra version got citext out of the way. This time I got smart and checked the rest of them - I believe hstore is already enabled, and plpgsql, so that just leaves pg_stat_statements - which I hadn't brought up previously, but is handy for many reasons, but also required in to get loom up.

Full list of extensions used by loomio:

  enable_extension "citext"
  enable_extension "hstore"
  enable_extension "pg_stat_statements"
  enable_extension "plpgsql"

girish

@jimcavoli Thanks, I have added those extensions as well now for the coming release.

jdaviescoates

any update on this @jimcavoli ? Thanks!

jimcavoli

Still pending; I missed an extension in the earlier ask, but that's been merged, so hopefully this will release shortly after the next Cloudron patch version. It's at the top of my list, so as soon as I can get it working, I'll update here.

yusf

@jimcavoli That is good news. Ping if you need testing.

jimcavoli

@yusf Will do!

jdaviescoates

@yusf said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

@jimcavoli That is good news. Ping if you need testing.

It's GREAT news!

Thanks @jimcavoli!

jimcavoli

I believe this should run on cloudron 6 without issue, but I'm waiting for that update to hit the machine I use to make sure and then we should be able to get this out. The new 2.5 update has some excellent features as well! (which I see no issues with running in this package as soon as it's ready to go)

marcusquinn

Very nice, looks like a better alternative to this that I'm seeing used often for Twitter community groups: https://www.mightynetworks.com/

robi

This will be useful in at least 2-3 of my many projects.

You can request a specific Cloudron to get the update sooner

girish

@jimcavoli If you want to move this along further, that postgresql extension is now enabled in 6.0

jimcavoli

@girish Yeah, I've picked it back up and all the basics are looking good. I've got it booting up completely on my dev box. Trying to work out the websockets piece now, which is pretty important. Just banging head against nginx for the most part

robi

@jimcavoli ask away, nginx is pretty straight fwd.

girish

Yeah, nginx/websocket requires this magic incantation - http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/websocket.html (if that is what is blocking you)

jimcavoli

I had a breakthrough with the dumb websockets issue. Hooray! This one should be ready shortly. I know it's been highly requested and hotly anticipated (for me as well) so it's my top packaging to finish. At this point, after a few other tweaks, I'm fairly sure I've got this working. I'll do some final testing tonight, but I expect that I should have an initial build together by this weekend.

marcusquinn

@jimcavoli

jimcavoli

It does appear that nearly all features are working in my test build. There is one last challenge remaining here - a potentially notable one. Inbound email for loomio is, in its usual deployment form, handled by a custom sub domain with an MX pointing to a nodejs mailin server to convert messages to webhooks. My plan for the cloudron packaging is to use the recvmail with a custom poller process that will grab emails and POST them as required to the app.

However, this will require a patch to the underlying software as well. The patch to make loomio use the configured CLOUDRON_MAIL_TO while leveraging the +-delimited subaddresses feature would be similar to https://github.com/loomio/loomio/compare/master...piratas-ar:pipe_to_api but with app/helpers/email_helper.rb using the ENV var rather than the hard-coded "loomio" shown in the linked patch. It's a pretty minimal change to get the packaging working so that all the various loomio services operate out of the singular cloudron container, so I'm comfortable pressing ahead with that approach, but if anyone can think of a better solution, please let me know!

jimcavoli

@girish or @nebulon Maybe you can help here? I've got everything in place as far as I can figure for email. Outbound works fine, but I keep getting bounces when attempting to reply. Both sendmail and recvmail are enabled for the app (in that order in the manifest), but something doesn't seem to be working nicely on the Cloudron side. I've confirmed that I get a 550 5.1.1 User doesn't exist: loomio.app@example.com when emailing either the naked loomio.app@example.com address or a subaccount address (ultimately the one I care about for reply-by-email) like loomio.app+subaccount@example.com

Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: 127.0.0.1
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;550 5.1.1 <loomio.app@example.com> User doesn't exist: loomio.app@example.com

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, I think everything is functioning correctly, but the reply-by-email and custom poller I've written can't be exercised and fully verified until I can sort out this mail delivery issue. Very excited to finally be (nearly) done with this one!

girish

@jimcavoli Where is the repo for this? I am not finding it in https://git.cloudron.io/jimcavoli

jimcavoli

@girish Thanks for fixing that up - packaging to date is at https://git.cloudron.io/jimcavoli/loomio-app

girish

@jimcavoli Thanks! Will take a look.

bubonicfred

@girish How's this going?

jdaviescoates

Just giving this another little bump

@girish did you ever manage to have a look at @jimcavoli's package?

Sam_uk

@bubonicfred @girish any progress on Loomio? Just trialling it in our organisation and inclusion would make the case for Cloudron stronger for us.

yusf

I've yet another org interested in this.

robi

Friends made a startup in this decision management field called KIE Labs - https://www.kielabs.com

bubonicfred

@jdaviescoates @girish
Just bumping this again,
possibly willing to help test

ianhyzy

do we do bounties on apps? I'd put one on this

Sam_uk

@ianhyzy you could reach out to @atridad he did a great job of packaging Humhub for me.

jdaviescoates

Off topic:

@sam_uk said in loomio - helps groups make better decisions together:

@atridad he did a great job of packaging Humhub for me.

I'm assuming/ hoping the plan is to get Humhub into the Cloudron App Store too, right?

jimcavoli

I can take a look at making sure the packaging code is up to date, but it's very much working on a test instance still. Only issue was @girish building / testing - happy to work on that part of it if needed...I could make it a straight-through Dockerfile rather than BuildKit dependent - though it'll take a fairly long time to build that way, maybe that's just what we need to do?

girish

@jimcavoli ah nice, if you can update the base image to 3.0.0, then I can take a look into publishing it. In fact, I am not sure why I didn't look into this further. Would be great to make it a straight through Dockerfile as that's how all the other packages are.

jimcavoli

@girish On it; hopefully will have that today

jimcavoli

@girish Opened it up and got to updating - was reminded that the issue was the inbound email side of things, not the Dockerfile on this one...it's the OpenSlides packaging stalled on the multistage builds (which needs some more revision and I'll update soon). In any case, I've updated it to use cloudron/base:3.0.0 and Loomio at 2.8.3 (latest) locally and on my test box. The outstanding issue with inbound mail remains, plus a new, if minor, issue with Redis AUTH for the channel server - any chance we'll see Redis updated to 6.x soon?

I can work on alternatives to make the channel server Redis connection happy, but I still need help on the inbound email side of things. Sending seems fine, but replies (the inbound-to-app side) bounce immediately. I've pushed the changes for the newer versions to https://git.cloudron.io/jimcavoli/loomio-app and included the caveat(s) about the broken components in the commit message for now.

girish

@jimcavoli thanks! We can follow up on the recvmail issue in the other thread. As for redis, is the issue that it cannot work with redis 5 at all? There is a flag in redis addon to disable auth entirely, would that help?

girish

here - https://docs.cloudron.io/packaging/addons/#redis . The noPassword flag in manifest.

jimcavoli

@girish Yeah, I tried setting that, but the issue is that one part of the app is sending the two-argument version every time, which 5 and lower just don't know how to handle

girish

@jimcavoli I see. What's interesting is that https://help.loomio.org/en/dev_manual/setup_dev_environment/ just suggests installing redis via apt but redis 6 is not yet in ubuntu (only via a ppa). Another idea is to maybe use the previous release of loomio and then we can move it once we have redis 6 available. Is that an option?

jimcavoli

@girish yeah, I don't see why not. It works in an older version. I may be able to pin back the specific dependency as well (it's the node dependency from https://github.com/loomio/loomio_channel_server that seems to be doing it). I'll play around with it a bit while we work on the recvmail thing in the mean time.

girish

@jimcavoli I have opened https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/box/-/issues/804 to track for next release

jimcavoli

Got 7.0.1 loaded up on my testbed machine...going to re-update the packaging as needed and ensure recvmail is integrated properly, then we should be good to go here. Hoping for O(days) on that, may be O(weeks) given schedules the next few weeks.

girish

@jimcavoli awesome, let me know if recvmail works or not

jdaviescoates

@jdaviescoates said in Cobudget - A collaborative funding tool for crowds with purpose.:

BTW, the backstory to Cobudget is a must read imho

https://www.managementexchange.com/story/collaborative-funding-dissolve-authority-empower-everyone-and-crowdsource-smarter-transparent

Same goes for Loomio actually

https://www.managementexchange.com/story/when-business-met-occupy-innovating-true-collaborative-decision-making-and-true-empowerment

bubonicfred

@jimcavoli @girish Any update on this?

Sam_uk

@girish Is it possible to test this somehow?

We're using it in our org and would like to let the team know when we could include it with our Keycloak/Cloudron services.

girish

@Sam_uk Not sure what the current status of the package is. @jimcavoli do you know?

girish

Initial loomio package is out - https://forum.cloudron.io/category/160/loomio . Please note, still unstable.

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Solved loomio - helps groups make better decisions together