Installing custom Apps on Cloudron

[Lanhild]

@Kubernetes said in Installing custom Apps on Cloudron:

Maybe it is an always existing conflict, that if there is a platform to provide application services, that there is need for more apps.

These are the words I was trying to put together. , completely agree.

[Lanhild]

@necrevistonnezr

Often, there are also app-specific questions that are not related to the app itself but directly to the upstream. That's not exclusive to Cloudron, it also happens all the time in IT.

[Lanhild]

@girish

I got an idea today:

• Add a field to the CloudronManifest.json schema; something in the likes of appstoreHost (and potentially appstoreToken for auth)
• Have an installable App Store application, where one can push their manifests for custom applications

Applications would then be installable on the Cloudron by using a new button in the "App Store" tab, that points to the configured custom App Store.

[Lanhild]

@Lanhild

@girish I am bumping this to know if, with the current Cloudron architecture, this would be feasible?

If so, I think it would be the easiest, least maintenance way to do it, while also keeping the flexibility of custom apps.

[girish]

@Lanhild it's possible to have multiple appstores, but the problem here is not technical though. With external appstore, a user has to be educated about the implications of installing from external sources. The user has to figure out who is packaging the app, whether it is safe to install, whether the app will continue to be maintained etc. Currently, for advanced users, they can already build and install apps themselves (in fact, if an app packager published the docker image, then they don't need to build it. It's a simple cloudron install --image xx ) . Does it really need to be made any simpler given that we incorporate apps into our app store already as and when possible.

[taowang]

@girish This command can install prebuilt docker images?

cloudron install --image xx

If so, a lot of apps can be installed, for example flowise.

[girish]

@taowang no, it cannot install arbitrary docker images. Only images built for Cloudron.

[crazybrad]

As a relatively new member of the Cloudron community (especially compared to @scooke) I can see both points of view. The current collection of apps is very eclectic, spanning both personal and business. And to a certain extent that reflects the wide range of our community - a strength.

I do not envy @girish and team trying to please all of us. It is both thankless and impossible. But one person's "must have" app is another person's "who cares". The danger is losing members if their needs are not met with the applications they need or want.

Perhaps having a simplified installation process would allow more people to customize their Cloudrons as desired. And yes, despite the warnings that you are on your own, I am sure that support questions will arise. And the spirit of the Cloudron team and the community to help will always prevail. As long as these questions are within reasonable limits, perhaps this will allow the platform to grow more valuable without being overwhelmed. I would suggest that custom-installed apps have its own topic area, especially if the results could be hidden from search engines to prevent prospective members getting the wrong impression about Cloudron's reliability per @scooke 's valid concerns.

Finally, I am personally interested in a business-oriented, custom-app platform where Dockerized applications can be hosted in a well-thought out and architected environment like Cloudron. We are exploring several ideas along these lines, including adding some private applications we have created, others we have paid to license, and some that are open source. And these systems would require incremental Cloudrons - helping to grow the revenue stream. In the end, that's the idea, isn't it...

[timconsidine]

Working on another approach.
It is possible to do ‘cloudron login -u username -p password my.domain.tld’ but what about 2FA ?
Is there a parameter for that value ?
Like ‘-2fa 123456’ ?

[james]

There is also this topic Proposal: The CUR - Cloudron User Repository

What do you people think of the following?
Adding an input field in the app-store view to directly upload a CloudronManifest.json.

Mockup:

To make this work, a new optional 'key': 'value' in the CloudronManifest.json would be needed to add the Docker Image information so Cloudron knows where to pull the image from for this custom app.
Example from @BrutalBirdie custom FounderyVTT app => https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/8296/foundry-virtual-tabletop // https://github.com/BrutalBirdie/cloudron-foundryvtt

{
  "id": "foundryvtt.cloudron.app",
  "title": "FoundryVTT",
  "author": "Elias Hackradt ",
  "tagline": "FounderyVTT",
  "upstreamVersion": "13.345",
  "version": "1.2.0",
  "healthCheckPath": "/",
  "icon": "file://logo.png",
  "tags": [ "game", "multiplayer" ],
  "memoryLimit": 1342177280,
  "httpPort": 30000,
  "manifestVersion": 2,
  "minBoxVersion": "5.3.0",
  "addons": {
    "localstorage": {}
  },
  "dockerimage": "brutalbirdie/foundryvtt.cloudron.app:1.2.0"
}

This would make the barrier relatively small in my opinion.

Looking forward to reading your opinions.

[Kubernetes]

@james I would love to have this enhancement. This would be a game changer for custom (unsupported) Apps

[fbartels]

@james said in Installing custom Apps on Cloudron:

upload a CloudronManifest.json

I would absolutely welcome the idea to make custom app installations more easy for third party installations and less technical users. I am not sure however is uploading a json file will really make it easier for the majority of users, as these will still need to rely on someone else producing a properly formatting manifest file (and don't mess up formatting on the way).

Including the container image name in the manifest does sound like a good idea, but how about instead of uploading the manifest through the store the user could provide the url for where multiple such manifests are stored? Then app developers could publish their own stores.

[BrutalBirdie]

@fbartels so basically what I proposed here Proposal: The CUR - Cloudron User Repository

I said in Proposal: The CUR - Cloudron User Repository:

Now imagine a CUR.
With a simple click in the setting you can enable the CUR and can install a community app to test and give feedback.

[fbartels]

@BrutalBirdie reading linked posts?

[Lanhild]

@james I'm good with this approach, as long as "apps" I upload can be private. Custom applications aren't necessarily public or shareable, but would greatly benefit from this.

[timconsidine]

I have thought long and hard about this.

I welcome anything to make it easier for regular users to deploy a custom app.
Uploading manifest (but remember the logo referenced in the manifest also if used), or the CUR can work.
These are good measures, but require some changes to Cloudron.

And frankly (unless I have misunderstood) it's still too much for some users. They need something vaguely similar to what they have, as a minimum a walk-through which handles the tech stuff.

I am working on a solution.
Think I have got past a critical point, and will finish off tomorrow.
Will post it here.

[timconsidine]

OK, so <nervously> how about this ?
Not sure if it gets me banned for side-stepping Cloudron process.
But all I am doing is presenting the Cloudron manual process for custom app install in a GUI with backend execution.

I present <drum roll> for your review and comments :
"CCAI" a Cloudron Custom App Installer.

A GUI which :

• logs the user in to their cloudron,
• gets details from the user of the target custom app to be installed,
• performs the custom install, and
• logs out on completion (and on error).

Features :

• security sensitive : no login details saved
• user does not need to install CLI on their local device
• user does not need to use the scary terminal on their device
• user does not need to download or clone any custom app repo
• user does not need Docker installed, and does not need to build a Docker image

Pre-requisites :

• the target custom app's publicly available git repo containing CloudronManifest.json and an icon file, e.g. logo.png but whatever, and a POSTNSTALL.md
• the target custom app's publicly available hosted pre-built docker image

Demo Site : https://ccai.appx.uk
(may go up and down as further tweaks are made, available for your review and live usage)

Source code available at https://git.cloudron.io/timconsidine/cloudron-customapp-installer

1. EITHER :

• install CCAI (ah, maybe a gotcha, you have to do it manually for now, but I'm hoping Cloudron will approve this as an app),
  OR
• use a kind developer's "hosted-as-a-service" CCAI (see BONUS below)

2. visit e.g. ccai.domain.tld (or try https://ccai.appx.uk)
3. enter data
4. enjoy the new custom app installed on your cloudron.

NOTE : developers who want to share their custom app should make a pre-built image and host it at a publicly accessible docker registry. But hey, if you can make a custom app, you can build and host a docker image.

BONUS :
Although not designed deliberately, as an unintended bonus, once CCAI has been deployed, it should be able to install a custom app on any Cloudron (provided access is granted).
So actually user does not need to install their own CCAI, unless they want to for privacy. They can just use another deployed instance, e.g. from a custom app dev, or even from Cloudron itself.
Feel free to anonymously use my deployment https://ccai.appx.uk to install custom apps to your own cloudron (no login or usage details saved).

WARNING - this is an alpha release.
I need to test with more custom apps (only done my own).
Volunteer testers very welcome !

So ... @staff would you be ok to make this an official App Store app ?
Feel free to re-write it however you wish, you're the professionals, I'm just hacking about

[timconsidine]

Admittedly CCAI as above does nothing about "discovery" of custom apps.
I favour low-tech approaches where possible.
Why not just make a new forum category "CustomApps" ?
One post for each custom app a dev wants to make available.
Some 'house rule' that custom apps must be maintained by the original dev, and if that ceases, to update the post accordingly.

EDIT : CCAI could be extended to load a custom app install data from a dropdown list of known apps, in addition to manual entry of a custom app's data.

EDIT #2 : CCAI now has a dropdown to populate known custom app install data.
Makes testing easier.
Because finding a custom app with pre-built docker image to deploy is not easy.
And it could be valuable functionality if the app is left running as a service.

[Lanhild]

@timconsidine

Why not just make a new forum category "CustomApps" ?
One post for each custom app a dev wants to make available
Some 'house rule' that custom apps must be maintained by the original dev, and if that ceases, to update the post accordingly.

This totally prevents the use cases of private custom apps.

[Lanhild]

@timconsidine nice proof of concept. It could help pave the way to have it natively inside a Cloudron's dashboard.

Like you mentioned, discovery of custom apps by the means of repositories is much needed, and would facilitate the use of this feature.