Zulip - Powerful open source group chat
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@robi removed them from my trustworthy since they managed to keep MacOS AppStore version, advertised on the landing, out of date for half of the year, after it was reported as an issue on GitHub.
To be more precise, it was a cherry on the cake, the cake was an enormous amount of bugs I've encountered during the usage and for me, that is a sign of malfunctioning engineering culture - you can't fix it anytime soon...
@potemkin_ai just to be clear, you're referring to RocketChat with your last comments ? (just checking it's not directed at Zulip)
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@potemkin_ai just to be clear, you're referring to RocketChat with your last comments ? (just checking it's not directed at Zulip)
@timconsidine have nothing against Zulip - thanks for checking in!
Nor self-hosting experience with Zulip either...
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L LoudLemur referenced this topic on
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L LoudLemur referenced this topic on
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New plans for self-hosted Zulip customers - https://blog.zulip.com/2023/12/15/new-plans-for-self-hosted-customers/
@girish said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
New plans for self-hosted Zulip customers - https://blog.zulip.com/2023/12/15/new-plans-for-self-hosted-customers/
I am all in favour of Free Software projects experimenting with ways of finding a viable business solution to fund their endeavours. I wish Zulip success.
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Starting today, new self-hosted customers will no longer get unlimited free access to Zulip’s Mobile Push Notification Service.
Is there a plan only for the push notifications?
@jagan said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Is there a plan only for the push notifications?
Yes there is: https://blog.zulip.com/2023/12/19/self-hosting-without-commercial-support/
Is there any major technical stoppers to get Zulip into Cloudron?
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@jagan said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Is there a plan only for the push notifications?
Yes there is: https://blog.zulip.com/2023/12/19/self-hosting-without-commercial-support/
Is there any major technical stoppers to get Zulip into Cloudron?
@avatar1024 said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Yes there is
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
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@avatar1024 said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Yes there is
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
@jdaviescoates said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
Indeeeed
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@jdaviescoates said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
Indeeeed
@jdaviescoates said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
@avatar1024 said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Yes there is
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
Actually Zulip may be the most affordable open source chat app out there. Those $3.5/user/month only come into play if you have more than ten users and want to have mobile notifications using Zulip's relay server.
For Mattermost, you only get a basic version if you don't pay at least $10/user/month for a non-open source version.
Rocket.chat limits the open source community edition to 10,000 notifications per month. Depending on the usage, this may not be enough even for ten users. Yes, you could use the starter edition up to 25 users for free. But that is apples and oranges as it is not open source anymore.
And with Cloudron you can have multiple instances running, so if you are really on a budget, but want mobile notifications, each team of less than 10 people gets its own instance of Zulip.
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@jdaviescoates said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
@avatar1024 said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Yes there is
$3.50/user/month just for that seems a bit steep
Actually Zulip may be the most affordable open source chat app out there. Those $3.5/user/month only come into play if you have more than ten users and want to have mobile notifications using Zulip's relay server.
For Mattermost, you only get a basic version if you don't pay at least $10/user/month for a non-open source version.
Rocket.chat limits the open source community edition to 10,000 notifications per month. Depending on the usage, this may not be enough even for ten users. Yes, you could use the starter edition up to 25 users for free. But that is apples and oranges as it is not open source anymore.
And with Cloudron you can have multiple instances running, so if you are really on a budget, but want mobile notifications, each team of less than 10 people gets its own instance of Zulip.
@go-run-jump Nextcloud Talk
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@scooke I gave up on that quest a long time ago.
People resist anything they think is effort or unpopular. That's why hyper-scaling capitalism has been so successful and every social media platform a business is expected to be on the ones from the hyper-growth capitalism capital of the tech world.
I see people using WhatsApp and Messenger as no different to people that work production lines to make my devices and clothing. Most just don't want to know any different, as then they'd have to be unsatisfied with their status quo.
It's more valuable for business to keep people believing, and do whatever it takes to retain those "users" (ironic term considering it is also common in describing drug addicts), than it is for them to try lesser-known alternatives, regardless of their superior privacy. So you're competing against an industry of global indoctrination as a business model in that persuasion endeavour.
For me it's:
Nextcloud Talk for all business and organisation ventures.
Signal for my friends and family that care about privacy, although that also has its issues, mainly in lack of ability to export data.
Mattermost + Element I believe has some traction with UK Government using it, and perhaps others, but even I found it confusing to get working at first.
WhatEver for everyone else that's too lazy to care about their own freedom and finds more comfort in giving their value to brands.
It baffles me how many people I care about are addicted to diet sodas, too, but regardless of caring, they just don't see the harm, and worse see anyone's attempts to divert them from such perceived minor vices as an attack on their freedom to choose, even if they know it's a junk brand, it gives them comfort because popularity feels safer than healthy to many.
@marcusquinn said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
People resist anything they think is effort or unpopular.
That is so true! People never seem to ask themselves, "which is the wisest way?" only "which is the popular and easiest?"
If you are first mover, you will, for a while, be the most popular way.
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We're using Zulip and it's incredible. The organization of channels into sub-topics is perfect. The LaTeX integration is also huge for us. It has some nice quality of life features and just generally works really well for us. Cloudron integration would be great.
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Telegram is in the news lately and people are looking for alternatives. Support for Zulip on Cloudron would be timely and might bring in quite a large number of new users.
https://github.com/zulip/docker-zulip
@LoudLemur said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Support for Zulip on Cloudron would be timely and might bring in quite a large number of new users.
If this gets on Cloudron "soon", I'll do all I can do promote Cloudron and Zulip!!! Maybe I'll even use my code.
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I am seeing more and more open source apps charging for certain features. I think this is becoming the norm rather than the exception. And Zulip is just one of many. As mentioned by others, $3.50/user/mo for mobile push notifications seems like a small price to pay. Without mentioning the Zulip competitor I am currently using, its rates are substantially more per user per month. Count me in on this one!
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As for Chat alternatives I'd by now recommend Matrix. I've been using it for a few years for personal communication and it's been a bit of a painful growth but can say that it's probably the best choice currently. I'ts free and I don't really see that changing since Element seems to have a good portion of paying customers and the new mobile apps are quite snappy. I've been test running them for a week or two and they feel super responsive and intuitive, very much like one would expect from a Telegram alternative.
NC Talk is great but really is more of a business solution.
