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Cloudron Forum

Apps | Demo | Docs | Install
jdaviescoatesJ

jdaviescoates

@jdaviescoates
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Recent Best Controversial

  • Outline - a Notion-like open source app
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    Team wiki, documentation, meeting notes, playbooks, onboarding, work logs, brainstorming, & more…

    https://www.getoutline.com/
    https://github.com/outline/outline

    I first heard about it in this post by @girish who also points out that the developer doesn't seem too keen in getting LDAP support added, but I whilst I'd love LDAP support to be included, lots of existing Cloudron apps don't have it (Discourse, etc - we need a filter in the app store to be able to easily see which other apps) and so I don't think that should be a show stopper (whilst still being a nice to have if at all possible).

    App Wishlist

  • Penpot - Design Freedom for Teams
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    I just came across this via the announcement about Taiga 6 (it's by the same people).

    "Penpot is the first Open Source design and prototyping platform meant for cross-domain teams. Non dependent on operating systems, Penpot is web based and works with open web standards (SVG). For all and empowered by the community."

    https://penpot.app/
    https://github.com/penpot/penpot

    The alpha 1.0.0 release came out yesterday!

    App Wishlist design prototyping

  • Mobilizon - A free and federated tool to get our events off Facebook!
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    From the great people at Framasoft
    https://joinmobilizon.org/en/
    https://framablog.org/2019/10/15/mobilizon-lifting-the-veil-on-the-beta-release/
    https://framagit.org/framasoft/mobilizon/
    Discuss at https://riot.im/app/#/room/#Mobilizon:matrix.org
    It's still early days, should probably wait until V1, but just wanted to get this here as a reminder to keep an eye on it.

    App Wishlist

  • Castopod Host - open-source hosting platform made for podcasters who want engage and interact with their audience.
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    Castopod is an open-source hosting platform made for podcasters who want engage and interact with their audience. Now with added ActivityPub goodness.

    https://podlibre.org/tag/castopod-host/
    https://code.podlibre.org/podlibre/castopod
    https://podlibre.org/castopod-host-alpha-42-fediverse/

    App Wishlist activitypub fediverse podcast

  • Nextcloud Talk high-performance back-end
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    This has just been open sourced

    See
    https://nextcloud.com/blog/open-sourcing-talk-back-end-rc-of-talk-9-brings-lots-of-improvements/

    https://github.com/strukturag/nextcloud-spreed-signaling

    Would love to be able to use this with my Cloudron Nextcloud!

    App Wishlist nextcloud nextcloud talk video

  • Why not make Cloudron fully open source again?
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    I've been blown away by how totally awesome Cloudron is (both in terms of how great the platform is, but also how great the community is, and how incredibly productive and responsive @girish and @nebulon are) since I first decided to give a try just 6 months ago. Thank you for creating something wonderful.

    Given this incredibly positive experience, I have understandably been actively promoting Cloudron whenever an opportunity to do so presents itself (I've already generated 9 15 referrals πŸ˜„ ).

    However, recently I was called out on Mastodon for sharing my referral code, which led to quite a few more discussions about Cloudron (and especially about the not-fully-open-source nature of Cloudron) both on Mastodon and elsewhere.

    I have to admit, I think many of the criticisms, concerns and perspectives people shared with me are valid and as a result I have begun to be less enthusiastic in my promotion of Cloudron (and even ever so mildly concerned about my continued use of it too).

    Therefore, I'd really like to hear @girish and @nebulon's answers to these two questions:

    1. Why is the Cloudron front end proprietary? but, moreover,
    2. What would need to be in place in order to convince you both to make ALL of Cloudron open source again?
      (because I would love, love, LOVE, this to happen! AND it'd be really GREAT PR for 6.0! πŸ˜‰ ).

    The answer to my first question has to some degree already been answered...

    Back on Monday 29 August 2016, Cloudron was fully open sourced! Hooray! πŸ‘

    But, as noted by @ryangorley in his post asking "Cloudron no longer AGPL?", the licence was changed in GitLab on 26 February 2019:

    a blog post (https://cloudron.io/blog/2016-08-29-opensource.html) dated 29 August 2016 announcing that Cloudron was being distributed with an AGPL license. At the top was a notice added 28 March 2018 indicating that Cloudron was no longer advertising open source, but was still being developed in the open. It did not indicate any license change. Then I found that the license had in fact changed in GitLab on 26 February 2019.

    Some people realise this but just accept the compromise:

    Like when @ruihildt recently wrote:

    FYI, not all Cloudron code is open source (FOSS).
    I'm not happy about it, but it's a comprise I can take, like so many others I have already in my life.

    Other people seemingly still think/ assume Cloudron is still open source:

    Just a week ago, @marcusquinn said in Scaling / High Availability Cloudron Setup:

    Clouron is open-source

    @girish said in Cloudron no longer AGPL? (my emphasis added):

    The technical reason is that the code base has subscription, appstore and sign up logic. It's unclear what the license should be if it requires the cloudron.io service to work. The non-technical reason is that we were spending too much time explaining why we call ourselves opensource and charge for it. To put an end to such conversations (many of them very hurtful), we just stopped calling ourselves opensource as as early as 2017. I don't know of an easy solution to this.

    And in one of the threads on Mastodon, a Cloudron dev said (again, my emphasis added):

    Cloudron is attempting to enable people with lesser technical knowledge to get apps running and most importantly updated, backed up and secured"

    and:

    most of our work goes into reliable, reproducible app updates

    And later on in the same thread Cloudron devs go on to describe their desire to create:

    a sustainable product with support

    And:

    We believe more into source available for trust and validation reasons bundled with a business model which is sustainable to ensure continuity for users and one which does not rely on external investment or other means to pay for dev. We have seen sandstorm failing, everyone looses out.
    My personal opinion: Ideally we all have the luxury to develop all this for free, but sadly at least I don't. And we have tried patreon style.

    So, to summarise, and correct me if I'm wrong @girish and @nebulon, but it would appear to me that the primary reason given for why Cloudron is not fully open source is simply because:

    the business model is to sell subscriptions in order to fund ongoing development, updates and support.

    Assuming I'm not wrong(?), this really confuses me, because I don't understand why Cloudron being fully open source would stop Cloudron from selling subscriptions for updates and support?

    Indeed, selling subscriptions for updates and support is pretty much exactly the same business model as the first one-billion dollar (now nearly $4B) open-source company in the world, and one of the most successful open source companies of all time: RedHat:

    Red Hat sells subscriptions for the support, training, and integration services that help customers in using their open-source software products. Customers pay one set price for unlimited access to services such as Red Hat Network (makes updates, patches, and bug fixes of packages included within Red Hat Linux and Red Hat Enterprise Linux available to subscribers) and up to 24/7 support.

    This was also one of the points raised on Mastodon:

    "Choosing a FOSS license does not impact your ability to have a subscription service."

    It was also made previously on this forum too:

    @gabrielcossette said in Cloudron no longer AGPL?:

    It should be pretty simple for customers to understand, they are paying for a service of maintenance and support (indirectly funding the development of the core product). That is no different than let's say a WordPress maintenance service to have plugins/themes kept up-to-date by a company.

    So, to rephrase my first question to @girish and @nebulon

    1. What exactly is it about Cloudron and/or the AGPL that leads you to the conclusion that if Cloudron were fully AGPL licensed you would be unable to continue with your sustainable business model of selling subscriptions for updates and support?

    And to repeat my second question:

    1. What would need to be in place in order to convince you both to make ALL of Cloudron open source again?
      (because I would love, love, LOVE, this to happen! AND it'd be really GREAT PR for 6.0! πŸ˜‰ ).

    From my perspective, I really cannot see any real reason why Cloudron could not continue to sell subscriptions for updates and support whilst being fully AGPL.

    I certainly would not cancel my subscription! Indeed, I'd be considerably more likely to purchase an annual one (or even a 3 year subscription if that were even an option!)

    Far from cancelling my subscription, if Cloudron it were to become fully open source again I'd get all excited and go on a giant Cloudron promotion spree that would no doubt generate lots more subscriptions too! (quite likely including additional subscriptions from people who've expressed their concerns to me about the licencing, and many other like minded people too).

    So, here's a few additional question to all my fellow Cloudron subscribers:

    • Would you stop subscribing for updates and support if Cloudron were AGPL?
    • Or would you be even more inclined to invest even more in Cloudron?
    • Might you, for example, be willing/ able commit to taking out a 3+ year Cloudron subscription, if that would help @girish and @nebulon feel comfortable going full open source again?

    Upvote and comment to let us all know! πŸ™‚

    Many thanks in advance to everyone, especially to @girish and @nebulon for creating such a great platform and community (and for your forthcoming answers too, of course πŸ˜‰ ) πŸ™‚

    Discuss agpl license licensing open-source subscription

  • matterbridge - A simple chat bridge. Letting people be where they want to be.
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    bridge between mattermost, IRC, gitter, xmpp, slack, discord, telegram, rocketchat, steam, twitch, ssh-chat, zulip, whatsapp, keybase, matrix and more with REST API (mattermost not required!)

    Sounds useful!

    https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
    https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/wiki/Deploy:-Docker

    App Wishlist

  • Lightmeter - Mail server delivery monitoring
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    Lightmeter brings peace to mail server management
    For mailops superheroes who keep communications free

    https://gitlab.com/lightmeter
    https://gitlab.com/lightmeter/controlcenter
    https://gitlab.com/lightmeter/controlcenter/-/releases
    https://gitlab.com/lightmeter/controlcenter/container_registry
    https://hub.docker.com/r/lightmeter/controlcenter

    h/t @fbartels

    App Wishlist email mail monitoring

  • AItable - Airtable alternative
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    This sounds and looks very good

    "APITable is an API-oriented and easy-to-use visual database for everyone, making it the best open-source alternative to Airtable. Best of all, APITable has a cooler UI and more functionality that will optimize your work and life to a magical level."

    https://aitable.ai/
    https://github.com/apitable/apitable

    App Wishlist

  • Work Adventure
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    I just heard about workadventu.re a very fun looking online meeting app via @luckow's post about another Cloudron meetup.

    And as @ruihildt said it wouldn't be long before an app request was posted for it πŸ˜‰

    It's a collaborative web application (virtual office) presented as a 16-bit RPG video game! πŸ™‚

    https://workadventu.re/
    https://github.com/thecodingmachine/workadventure

    App Wishlist events

  • A list of Cloudron-like services/ competitors
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    We all love Cloudron because it Just Works and automates/ takes care of so much.

    As a bit of market research for Cloudron and as a list of other interesting options for people to try/ investigate for deploying apps that aren't yet on Cloudron, let's compile a list of the similarish "one-click install" type services that are out there.

    I'll get us started:

    YunoHost
    https://yunohost.org/
    https://yunohost.org/en/apps
    https://github.com/YunoHost/yunohost

    HomelabOS
    https://homelabos.com/
    https://homelabos.com/docs/#available-software
    https://gitlab.com/NickBusey/HomelabOS/

    Ethibox
    https://ethibox.fr/
    https://ethibox.fr/apps
    https://github.com/ethibox/ethibox

    Tipi
    https://www.runtipi.io/
    https://www.runtipi.io/docs/apps-available
    https://github.com/meienberger/runtipi

    Co-op Cloud
    https://coopcloud.tech/
    https://recipes.coopcloud.tech/
    https://git.coopcloud.tech/coop-cloud

    Elestio
    https://elest.io/
    https://elest.io/fully-managed-services
    https://github.com/elestio

    Sandstorm
    https://sandstorm.io/
    https://apps.sandstorm.io/
    https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm

    CapRover
    https://caprover.com/
    https://wizardly-ptolemy-8fcac8.netlify.app/ (h/t @scooke for giving me that list of CapRover apps)
    https://github.com/caprover/caprover

    Umbrel
    https://umbrel.com/
    https://apps.umbrel.com/
    https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel

    Cosmos
    https://cosmos-cloud.io
    https://cosmos-cloud.io/cosmos-ui/market-listing (but apparently can do any Docker app too)
    https://github.com/azukaar/cosmos-server

    CasaOS
    https://casaos.io/
    (I can't easily find the list of apps on CasaOS but it shows them on the website)
    https://github.com/IceWhaleTech/CasaOS

    PikaPods (not self hosting, but easy App Deployment to their Cloud Infrastructure)
    https://www.pikapods.com/
    https://www.pikapods.com/apps
    https://github.com/pikapods (docs only)

    Unraid
    https://unraid.net/
    https://unraid.net/community/apps
    https://github.com/unraid (it's proprietary though, so you wont find the code there)

    Dokku
    https://dokku.com
    https://github.com/dokku/dokku/
    No list of apps, but "you can push Heroku-compatible applications to it via Git"

    FreedomBox
    https://freedombox.org/
    https://salsa.debian.org/freedombox-team/freedombox/
    Can't find a simple list but check the demo and manual

    Easypanel
    https://easypanel.io/
    https://easypanel.io/templates
    https://github.com/easypanel-io

    Coolify - An open-source & self-hostable Heroku / Netlify alternative.
    https://coolify.io/
    https://coolify.io/docs/installation
    https://github.com/coollabsio/coolify/blob/main/scripts/install.sh
    https://github.com/coollabsio/coolify/

    There is also this handy tool by @rosano that lists all the apps available on Cloudron, YunoHost and CapRover https://easyindie.app/ (be cool if it listed all the apps on all these systems!)

    What else is out there?

    Off-topic self-host selfhosting self-hosting

  • LibreTime - Radio Broadcast & Automation Platform
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    "Libretime is an open source radio automation and broadcasting solution helping communities get on-air with ease.

    "The platform can be easily deployed on dedicated hardware and VMs, on-prem or in the cloud, β€œfree as in freedom” free.

    "Let your station underwrite its own destiny."

    http://libretime.org
    https://github.com/LibreTime/libretime

    h/t @jeau who mentioned it here.

    App Wishlist

  • KoBoToolbox - Simple, Robust and Powerful Tools For Data Collection
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    This Kobo Toolbox looks very useful

    https://www.kobotoolbox.org/
    https://github.com/kobotoolbox
    https://github.com/kobotoolbox/kobo-docker
    https://github.com/kobotoolbox/kobo-install

    App Wishlist data collection

  • Coolify - An open-source & self-hostable Heroku / Netlify alternative
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    I'm not really sure this is something that could run on Cloudron (if not I guess this should be in Discuss instead), or if it's actually a more geeky alternative of sorts, but I figured people here might be interested:

    https://coolify.io/
    https://demo.coolify.io/
    https://github.com/coollabsio/coolify

    App Wishlist heroku netlify

  • Papercups - Open source live customer chat
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    Looks potentially useful as an alternative to Rocket.Chat Live Chat/ Omnichannel (and proprietary tools like Intercom etc)

    https://papercups.io/
    https://github.com/papercups-io/papercups
    https://app.papercups.io/demo
    https://github.com/papercups-io/chat-widget

    Apparently email notifications only work with Mailgun right now though so might not be ready for turning into a Cloudron app...

    App Wishlist

  • What's coming in Cloudron 9
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    @girish said in What's coming in Cloudron 9:

    Multiple Backup Destinations
    Granular Backup schedule

    Really looking forward to these! πŸ€žπŸ™

    Announcements

  • App contributions hall of fame
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    @girish and @nebulon, obviously. Who else?

    EDIT: I just realised I could do an Advanced search for "most of the packaging work" in Announcements to find lots of them (although not all, as e.g. that didn't find Moodle).

    In no particular order:

    • @atridad did much of the work for Moodle, n8n, Owncast, and Uptime Kuma
    • @doodlemania2 did most of the packaging work for Pixelfed, Apache Guacamole, Owncast and Paperless.
    • @jimcavoli did most of the packaging work for Metabase, Grafana, Snipe-IT and Grav CMS
    • @thetomester13 did most of the packaging work for Firefly III, PrivateBin, Astral and RSS Bridge
    • @fbartels did most of the packagingwork for Statping
    • @ultraviolet did most of the packaging work for Vault, Trilium Notes and Apache Guacamole and bootstrapped Calibre Web
    • @msbt did most of the packaging work for TeamSpeak, YOURLS, Alltube Download, Bookstack, WBO Collaborative Whiteboard, helped with Matrix/Riot, and got Ampache started.
    • @syn did most of the packaging work for Mastodon
    • @Felix and @iamthefij did much of the heavy lifting for Bitwarden
    • @murgero did the initial ground work for Directus
    • @cve-random did the majority of the work for Jellyfin with the help of @mehdi
    • @mehdi also implemented OpenVPN, Transmission, SickChill and CouchPotato
    • @sumacinitiative helped out with LimeSurvey and SearX
    • @BrutalBirdie did most of the work for Greenlight and also packaged SFTPGo
    • @erics packaged dolibarr
    • @eriktad packaged prometheus
    • @mario helped package docker-registry
    • @dswd packaged freshrss, gitea, syncthing
    • @jeau packaged OmekaS
    • @v_shnu packaged Chatwoot
    • @timconsidine packaged changedetection, ntfy
    • @klawitterb packaged documize
    • @random_eric packaged ntfy
    • @Kubernetes packaged Stirling-PDF, audiobookshelf, teddit
    • @jypelle packaged ctfreak
    • @walski packaged outline
    • @Sydney packaged Actual
    • @Lanhild packaged OpenWebUI
    • @eyecreate packaged Kavita
    • @TheNils packaged PocketBase
    • @nj packaged KeyCloak
    • @walski packaged Beszel
    • @canadaduane packaged librechat

    I did a few other searches too and think I've likely got most of them now, but who is still missing? πŸ™‚

    Anyone? πŸ™‚

    App Packaging & Development

  • ejabberd - Robust, Scalable and Extensible Realtime Server using XMPP, MQTT and SIP
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    https://ejabberd.im/
    https://github.com/processone/ejabberd

    App Wishlist

  • Developer perspective
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    @Matus said in Fider:

    Open-source Cloudron

    For a while it was fully open source. I agree that it would make more sense for it to be fully open source again and so far I've yet to hear any good reasons from @staff or others about why it isn't, see:

    https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/2862/why-not-make-cloudron-fully-open-source-again/

    The only reason I can fathom is a fear that making Cloudron open source again would somehow mess up their business model due to the potential for copycats to offer the same service for cheaper.

    Personally I don't see that fear as having that much risk as Cloudron has a strong community and that is something much much harder to simply copy.

    But also, as you mention yourself, I think there are a bunch of people out there who don't contribute to Cloudron because it's not open source, and a whole load of people who don't subscribe because it isn't too.

    @Matus said in Fider:

    A crazy scheme I just came up with:
    Take a percentage of Cloudrons' sales and re-distribute back to either:
    a) existing apps on Cloudron based on popualarity
    b) or as a bounty for apps not already on Cloudron. For best quality, add preference for the original developers of the project to bid on the bounty and provide support.

    Interesting proposal. Cloudron does already support some upstream projects with both code and money, but I'd love to see it do so systematically!

    I'd also love to see more transparency about the finances, how much is coming in and going out and on what. Buffer are a really great example of this, see https://buffer.com/transparency

    App Packaging & Development

  • Letsmeet.no / edumeet - web-meetings using mediasoup and WebRTC
    jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

    https://github.com/edumeet/edumeet
    https://hub.docker.com/r/edumeet/edumeet/
    demo - https://letsmeet.no/

    App Wishlist
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